We asked Ukrainians for their assessment of Joe Biden’s presidency, his legacy in regard to the full-scale invasion, and what he could have done more to help Ukraine. kyivindependent.com/its-not-en…
In his farewell speech from the White House on Jan.15, outgoing U.S. President Joe Biden took the opportunity to highlight his achievements in office in an attempt to help cement his legacy.
⚡️Four Russian officers reportedly killed in Kursk Oblast by Ukraine’s Dec. 30 strike. At least four Russian officers were killed in Ukraine’s attack on the town of Lgov in Russia’s Kursk Oblast on Dec. 30, independent Russian media outlet Mediazona reported on Jan. 17, citing recently published obituaries. Eight people from the division’s senior staff were killed, and 22 others were injured in the attack, the obituary read. kyivindependent.com/at-least-4…
@Crell Personally I don't mind dynamic languages, if that's what you're getting at. You can be dynamic without being boneheaded like this. (I think Perl does it a bit better, IIRC.)
@Crell Oh we use Javascript all the time and I personally love it! Not so much for its type handling, it can be a bit wonky (insert holy trinity meme), but y'know.
I'll take some type wonkiness in return for JS's immense flexibility and unopinionatedness. It doesn't try to force you into any one specific pattern or coding style (*cough*Rust).
@evert Because in practice it bites you about 10000x as often as "a string that happens to start with 0e will get coerced to 0 if you try to use it as a number."
Addition and concat are two of the most common operations. Using the same symbol for them when the types are inherently unknown is begging for trouble.
They're both evaluating as strings, but then the strings are being evaluated as numbers??
php > echo ('0e83' == '0e99');<br>1<br>
What's marked as a string should be considered a string until typecast to something else. Putting a number in a string should not cause it to be interpreted as a number.
@woozle some of us are pushing PHP to be better. JS has the problem that you do not know what the client will be running.
But improving comparisons is something I want to work sooner than later, but it requires some rework at the engine level. Incredibly early draft is here github.com/Girgias/php-rfcs/bl…
I don't know if the answer to this question is impossibly complicated, but what I don't understand is why type-coercion has to take place for comparison operators when both sides of the comparison are the same type.
TLDR: I think what is happening here is that the == operator has a clear preference for numeric coercion -- if a string can be interpreted as a properly-formatted number, it will do that. Only if a string cannot be interpreted that way will it reluctantly do a string comparison:
I don't know if the answer to this question is impossibly complicated, but what I don't understand is why type-coercion has to take place for comparison operators when both sides of the comparison are the same type.
TLDR: I think what is happening here is that the == operator has a clear preference for numeric coercion -- if a string can be interpreted as a properly-formatted number, it will do that. Only if a string cannot be interpreted that way will it reluctantly do a string comparison:
The same rule appears to be in effect for !=, >, and <.
Also, this only happens for numerically-formatted contents; the strings 'true' and 'false' are not coerced to boolean values.
Editorializing
(The following is intended not so much as arguing with you as hoping to arm you with more information to present to those who might influence the decisionmaking process.)
There may be valid mental model reasons for doing this, but I think they really need to be spelled out clearly in the manual somewhere and mentioned whenever affected operators are discussed.
To me, right now, it makes no sense. The comparison is between two things that are unambiguously the same type, so there is no reason to coerce either of them to anything else.
There's not even any reason to be attempting to parse the contents of either string (to see if either one might be intended to represent a number).
A string should be a string unless it can't be. I'd rather see string-to-number comparisons generate an error than have this behavior.
The Manual Is Wrong?
This page heavily implies that coercion only takes place if there's a type-mismatch:
If both operands are numeric strings, or one operand is a number and the other one is a numeric string, then the comparison is done numerically.
A warning-example on that page also clearly shows that while 0 == "a"used to coerce "a" to a number before the comparison (in php7), php8 no longer does -- which to my mind implies that in the problematic example which started this discussion, the coercion is taking place via a different mechanism, to wit:
Because the string contents can be interpreted as a number, the '==' operator inexplicably decides to convert it.
It's not even following the usual string-to-int "empty string is zero, anything else is 1" conversion rule:
Even when both values have been parsed as strings and put into variables marked as type "string", these operators are peering inside the contents to see if they can be interpreted differently.
My guess is that a lot of choices were made when ~everything came in as a string over GET or POST. PHP tried really hard to do what people probably wanted. Register Globals filled the world with strings!
It's been a long effort to get this far. And every change has someone whining that we've broken their app because it relies on silly implicit type conversions. Caution is needed as we go.
@jalefkowit I earnestly don’t want to be a sneering elitist but I cannot help but see a *little* bit of a silver lining in a certain photography enthusiast’s public crash-out, in that it may damage the popularity of this language. If you squint, it’s really harm reduction (via doing lots and lots of harm)
yup, PHP type juggling attacks are an entire rabbit hole... another fun one: your password comparison mechanism very likely has a timing attack embedded somewhere, unless you use a framework or special newer PHP functions built for security
⚡️Ukraine ready to help Slovakia achieve energy stability, Zelensky says. Ukraine is ready for dialogue on energy security with Slovakia and can help it achieve energy stability, President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Jan. 17 at a meeting with a delegation of the Progressive Slovakia political party, which is led by Michal Simecka. Zelensky’s statement follows Ukraine’s decision to stop Russian gas transit via its territory, including supplies to Slovakia. Slovak Prime Minister Robet Fico has threatened to limit aid to Ukrainians and cut off electricity supplies due to the termination of Russian gas transit. kyivindependent.com/ukraine-re…
⚡️ Basic military training to start in Ukrainian higher education institutions in September 2025. The course will consist of 90 academic hours of theory study and 210 academic hours of practical training. kyivindependent.com/basic-gene…
While Russia projects resilience, its economy shows cracks: inflation is rising, labor and technology shortages worsen, and liquid reserves may run out by fall 2025, creating a critical budget shortfall. kyivindependent.com/putins-war…
Russian President Vladimir Putin frequently boasts about the strength of his country’s economy, claiming that Western sanctions only made it stronger (while in the same breath demanding that they be lifted).
In this edition: OSCE observers not invited to monitor upcoming presidential election in Belarus; Belarus to host over 13,000 Russian troops for Zapad-2025 joint military drills with Russia; and more. kyivindependent.com/belarus-we…
OSCE observers not invited to monitor upcoming presidential election in Belarus.
Belarus to host over 13,000 Russian troops for Zapad-2025 joint military drills with Russia.
Belarus sentences EU diplomatic staffer to four years in prison.
⚡️Biden administration secretly funded Ukraine’s drone industry, NYT reports. U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration has declassified previously undisclosed efforts to support Ukraine’s drone industry, including $1.5 billion funding sent in September 2024, The New York Times reported on Jan. 17, citing anonymous officials. U.S. intelligence officers reportedly assisted in advancing Ukraine’s drone capabilities, helping to design a new generation of drones intended to revolutionize modern warfare. kyivindependent.com/biden-admi…
U.S. intelligence officers reportedly assisted in advancing Ukraine's drone capabilities, helping to design a new generation of drones intended to revolutionize modern warfare.
⚡️Putin, Pezeshkian sign strategic Russia-Iran partnership agreement in Moscow. Iran has provided Russia with thousands of Shahed drones used in attacks against Ukrainian cities, as well as short-range ballistic missiles. kyivindependent.com/putin-peze…
⚡️ Hungary’s Orban urges EU to lift Russia sanctions, media reports. Viktor Orban also described the European Union as being in a “drunken stage” but predicted a “sobering up” in Brussels. kyivindependent.com/hungarys-o…
Donald Trump promised to end the Ukraine-Russia war during his campaign. As inauguration approaches on Jan. 20, the Kyiv Independent’s Francis Farrell lays out the four scenarios that could see an end to the war in Ukraine — for better or worse. piped.video/watch?v=FtZeoMVSYf…
⚡️ Ukrainian special forces target Russian soldiers behind POW executions — several killed, captured. The captured Russians were identified as marines from the 40th Arctic Brigade. kyivindependent.com/ukraine-ta…
⚡️ Ukrainian special forces target Russian soldiers behind POW executions — several reportedly killed, captured. The captured Russians were identified as marines from the 40th Arctic Brigade. kyivindependent.com/ukraine-ta…
.env files are widely used to configure applications by storing configuration settings, environment variables, and sensitive information. This eliminates the need to hardcode these values into the app
La documentata denuncia di Amnesty International nel report “Una prigione digitale” evidenzia i sistematici abusi delle forze dell'ordine di Belgrado che sorvegliano gli attivisti per reprimere il dissenso e controllare le manifestazioni della societ…
Sources: Trump plans an EO to elevate crypto to a national imperative or priority and create a crypto advisory council to advocate for industry priorities (Bloomberg)
I mean, is he really going to try? Isn't he going to just do batshit-crazy stunts to distract the public and media while his administration loots the tiller?
Altra bocciatura per il peggior ministro dei trasporti della storia d’Italia. Il Tar nega vi fosse alcuna urgenza per la precettazione nello sciopero del 13 d
Duolingo, the mobile app that teaches users new languages, has reported a surge of 216%, primarily among US users. The language they're trying to learn?
Оперативний ЗСУ [TRANSLATED MESSAGE] Operators of unmanned systems of the 46th Airmobile Brigade send explosive greetings to Russians in the Kurakhiv direction Work on the disposal of the enemy does not stop for a second. https://t.me/operativnoZSU/ t.me/
Post-apocalyptic action/sci-fi comics about future romans who find an alien creature and have to deal with the international consequences of the discovery.
Finally, chapter 8 has started so I don't have to sit on it by myself... you too can join me on my little comic madness sarilho.net/ | #sarilho #MastoArt
Post-apocalyptic action/sci-fi comics about future romans who find an alien creature and have to deal with the international consequences of the discovery.
Egypt. Cairo. On the Nile shore near Boulac, with Dahableh making sail Zürich : Photoglob Company, ca. 1890-1910 Rivers,Boats,Coastlines,Cities & towns,Egypt Būlāq (Cairo) Nile River
L’Italia fa molta fatica a creare i nuovi posti negli asili previsti dal PNRR Ci sono grossi ritardi e secondo l'Ufficio parlamentare di bilancio di questo passo è verosimile che se ne facciano 17mila in meno dell'obiettivo ilpost.it/2025/01/15/asili-nid…
The deal promises the release of dozens of hostages held by Hamas in phases, the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners in Israel and would allow hundreds of thousands of people displaced in Gaza to return to what remains of their homes.
Sabato 18 gennaio, dalle 21:30 alle 00:30, presso Eterotopia - Spazio Pubblico Autogestito - via Risorgimento 21, San Giuliano Milanese, Via Risorgimento 21, San Giuliano Milanese; e anche online, su eterotopia.eu
Eterotopi@Jamsession:
Palco montato, porta il tuo strumento, porta la tua voce.
Da sabato 18 gennaio a domenica 19 gennaio, dalle 12:00 alle 21:00, presso Via Gola, Via Gola
In un contesto in cui a causa del caro vita e dei processi di riqualificazione vengono espulse dalla città le fasce piú povere della popolazione, il patrimonio pubblico viene svenduto e privatizzato
Abbiamo deciso di organizzare una due giorni di festa e di lotta in quartiere per ribadire ancora una volta che LA CASA NON È UNA MERCE!
Nel quartiere Ticinese il nido di via Gola 23 é a rischio chiusura, la scuola materna di via Gentilino avrebbe fatto la stessa fine senza l'intervento degli abitanti del quartiere, la piscina Argelati verrá data in gestione a privati e non si sa per quanto non aprirá, i negozi e le piccole attività chiudono e vengono trasformate in Airbnb.
Intanto negli edifici popolari ci sono lavori iniziati 20 anni fa e mai finiti, ponteggi abbandonati da 10 anni a reggere balconi pericolanti. Gli e le abitanti, regolari e non, di fronte a questa mala
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DUE GIORNI DI FESTA E DI LOTTA IN QUARTIERE
Da sabato 18 gennaio a domenica 19 gennaio, dalle 12:00 alle 21:00, presso Via Gola, Via Gola
In un contesto in cui a causa del caro vita e dei processi di riqualificazione vengono espulse dalla città le fasce piú povere della popolazione, il patrimonio pubblico viene svenduto e privatizzato
Abbiamo deciso di organizzare una due giorni di festa e di lotta in quartiere per ribadire ancora una volta che LA CASA NON È UNA MERCE!
Nel quartiere Ticinese il nido di via Gola 23 é a rischio chiusura, la scuola materna di via Gentilino avrebbe fatto la stessa fine senza l'intervento degli abitanti del quartiere, la piscina Argelati verrá data in gestione a privati e non si sa per quanto non aprirá, i negozi e le piccole attività chiudono e vengono trasformate in Airbnb.
Intanto negli edifici popolari ci sono lavori iniziati 20 anni fa e mai finiti, ponteggi abbandonati da 10 anni a reggere balconi pericolanti. Gli e le abitanti, regolari e non, di fronte a questa mala gestione si sono rimboccati le maniche riparando portoni, cortili, tetti, pulendo cortili, solai, e cantine, contrastando il degrado e l'incuria di Aler.
Quest'ultima é seppellita da 427 milioni di euro di debito (dato del 2022) e si stima che questo debito cresca ogni anno di 5 milioni. Intanto in tutta la Lombardia si stima che ci siano piú di 50.000 alloggi vuoti, di cui piú di 16.000 solo a Milano. Decine e decine di case chiuse da anni in ogni quartiere popolare della città.
Questa situazione riguarda tutti e tutte, occupanti e assegnatari, nessuno escluso.
VIA GOLA
SABATO 18 GENNAIO:
- ORE 12 PRANZO CONDIVISO porta ciò che vorresti trovare
- ORE 15 PRESENTAZIONE DEL LIBRO "Rosso Banlieue" insieme all'autore Atanasio Bugliari Goggia a seguire dibattito
- ORE 18 CONCERTO con Signor K e Marley!
DOMENICA 19 GENNAIO:
- ORE 12 PRANZO CONDIVISO porta ciò che vorresti trovare
- RIFACIMENTO MURALES
- MUSICA DIFFUSA, BANCHETTI ARTIGIANALI E PERFORMANCE SUI TRAMPOLI e TORNEO DI BIGLIARDINO.
SALVIAMO LE CASE POPOLARI, NO LE SPECULAZIONI IMMOBILIARI .
NO AL DECRETO SALVA MILANO SI ALLA SANATORIA DELLE OCCUPAZIONI!
A large proportion of the vegetables consumed in Québec are grown in the Montérégie region in what are known as organic soils. Highly fertile and rich in organic matter, these soils are particularly well suited to vegetable production.
Decentralized Instagram alternative Pixelfed debuts iOS and Android apps; its Android app is the top Social app on Google Play in some markets, including the US (Sarah Perez/TechCrunch)
Pixelfed, a decentralized alternative to Instagram, has launched its official mobile apps. The service today runs on the same ActivityPub protocol that
Con Furio Colombo la cultura italiana perde un grande intellettuale di solida sensibilità democratica e antifascista, un grande giornalista che per decenni è
Fixes for a critical rsync vulnerability (CVE-2024-12084) have been released for Stable/Bookworm, Testing and Unstable. Oldstable/Bullseye is not affected. Fixes for other lower severity CVEs have also been released in the same update and can all be tracked at security-tracker.debian.org/tr…. The fixed Stable version is 3.2.7-1+deb12u1 and the fixed Testing/Unstable version is 3.3.0+ds1-3
Colonne di cenere, fiamme e polvere che possono sollevare oggetti al pari delle trombe d'aria. Noti come diavolo di fuoco possono essere pericolosi e distruttivi: variano di intensità, durata e diametro di estensione
01/02/2025 I was 15. I didn’t actually talk to anyone. I was just like “Neat, someone from Australia.” And to explain the joke, Age/Sex/Location thedevilspanties.com/archives/… #1990s,#IRC,#technology
Giovedì 9 gennaio, dalle 18:00, presso Darsena Milano, Piazza XXIV Maggio, Milano
Le immagini dell’inseguimento folle del 24 novembre non vanno commentate. Ramy è stato ucciso dalle Forze dell’Ordine, vittima di un omicidio di Stato.
A soli 19 anni, Ramy Elgaml perde la vita all’incrocio tra via Ripamonti e via Quaranta, schiacciato su un cartello stradale da una volante dei carabinieri dopo essere stato inseguito per tutta la città: da Citylife a Vigentino.
Sono settimane ormai che Milano è oggetto di una propaganda inutile sulla “sicurezza”: ma quale, ci chiediamo? Per noi sicurezza è non venir uccisi dai carabinieri per un illecito amministrativo: non erano necessari 8 km di inseguimento, bastava prendere una targa. Milano è stata militarizzata a tal punto che non è più possibile vivere lo spazio pubblico, che chi viene da quartieri periferici o popolari subisce costantemente violenza fisica, profilazione razziale, accanim
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Giustizia per Ramy e Faes, corteo in Darsena
Giovedì 9 gennaio, dalle 18:00, presso Darsena Milano, Piazza XXIV Maggio, Milano
Le immagini dell’inseguimento folle del 24 novembre non vanno commentate. Ramy è stato ucciso dalle Forze dell’Ordine, vittima di un omicidio di Stato.
A soli 19 anni, Ramy Elgaml perde la vita all’incrocio tra via Ripamonti e via Quaranta, schiacciato su un cartello stradale da una volante dei carabinieri dopo essere stato inseguito per tutta la città: da Citylife a Vigentino.
Sono settimane ormai che Milano è oggetto di una propaganda inutile sulla “sicurezza”: ma quale, ci chiediamo? Per noi sicurezza è non venir uccisi dai carabinieri per un illecito amministrativo: non erano necessari 8 km di inseguimento, bastava prendere una targa. Milano è stata militarizzata a tal punto che non è più possibile vivere lo spazio pubblico, che chi viene da quartieri periferici o popolari subisce costantemente violenza fisica, profilazione razziale, accanimento. Ma quale sicurezza? Forse quella della Milano vetrina, che tutela solo il profitto e allontana ogni giorno chi non è bianco e ricco. Da oggi però, non potranno più raccontare della Milano pericolosa senza che venga alla mente l’omicidio di Ramy: è questa la soluzione che il governo propone. Lasciare libertà all’azione violenta delle forze dell’ordine, esaltate come è chiaro dal video. Noi non ci stiamo: sicurezza è inclusione, investimenti pubblici nei quartieri popolari. Che si tolgano dalla bocca quella parola: chi comanda non ci fa sentire al sicuro!
Ci vediamo domani, 9 gennaio alle 18:00 in Darsena, per ricordare Ramy e per chiedere giustizia.
This era of UI design was so visually appealing. We’ve somehow managed to come full circle and make modern UI design just as flat but somehow without any of the style RE: tech.lgbt/@nina_kali_nina/1136…
Post-apocalyptic action/sci-fi comics about future romans who find an alien creature and have to deal with the international consequences of the discovery.
Microsoft’s tone-deaf advice to Windows 10 users: just buy a new PC, you’re all rich, right?
Over 60% of Windows users are still using Windows 10, with only about 35% or so - and falling! - of them opting to use Windows 11. As we've talked about many times before, this is a major issue going into 2025, since Windows 10's support will end in Octob
Se hai tra i 18 e i 29 anni non compiuti puoi candidarti a svolgere 12 mesi di Servizio Civile presso l'Agenzia della Pace di Perugia e organizzare insieme a noi e a tanti altri giovani la prossima Marcia PerugiAssisi del 12 ottobre 2025!
Domenica 12 gennaio, dalle 19:00, presso circolo anarchico bruzzi-malatesta, Via Torricelli 19, milano
Circolo dei Malfattori - via Torricelli 19
Riffa o di Raffa! La riffa ufficiale della palestra popolare Torricelli. Ricicliamo regali di natale, cose immateriali e/o qualsiasi pensiero. Mettiamo tutto in un mucchio ed estraiamo. Chiunque può portare regali, meglio se impacchettati. A seguire cena vegan e vin brulè.
Sosteniamo lo sport autogestito e popolare, difendiamo gli spazi collettivi autogestiti e occupati!
⚡️ ЗБИТО 7 ВОРОЖИХ БПЛА ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ У ніч на 7 грудня 2024 року (із 21.30 6 грудня) противник завдав удару ракетою невстановленого типу по Сумщині, атакував 14-ма ударними БпЛА типу «Shahed» та безпілотн
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⚡️ ЗБИТО 7 ВОРОЖИХ БПЛА ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ У ніч на 7 грудня 2024 року (із 21.30 6 грудня) противник завдав удару ракетою невстановленого типу по Сумщині, атакував 14-ма ударними БпЛА типу «Shahed» та безпілотниками інших типів (район пусків: Приморсько-Ахтарськ – рф).
💥 Станом на 08.30 підрозділами зенітних ракетних військ, РЕБ та мобільних вогневих груп Повітряних Сил та Сил оборони України збито 7 ворожих БпЛА у Київській, Вінницькій, Одеській, Черкаській та Житомирській областях. 6 безпілотників локаційно втрачено, 1 — вийшов з підконтрольного повітряного простору у напрямку рф.
Members of the new team whom Donald Trump picked for national security offices in the future administration are capable of generating specific political ideas, which could allow the peace initiative for Ukraine to see successful developments.
Как перевести деньги с карты на карту между Россией и Казахстаном в 2025 году: Советы и лучшие способы
Между Россией и Казахстаном существует высокая активность денежных переводов, обу
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Как перевести деньги с карты на карту между Россией и Казахстаном в 2025 году: Советы и лучшие способы
Между Россией и Казахстаном существует высокая активность денежных переводов, обусловленная тесными экономическими и культурными связями. В последние три года на фоне геополитических изменений и финансовых ограничений отправка средств между странами стала сложнее, но осталась возможной благодаря различным инструментам, доступным пользователям. Рассмотрим основные способы перевода денег, их экономические преимущества, недостатки и связанные с ними затраты.
Между Россией и Казахстаном существует высокая активность денежных переводов, обусловленная тесными экономическими и культурными связями. В последние три года на...
A Roma come a Milano, la violenza contro le coppie e più in generale le persone LGBTQIA+ continua a manifestarsi sempre più frequentemente in Italia. Nella
![[:pt]A masked Eurico stands in the middle of a destroyed building. The sky peeks behind him, and light pours in.[:]](https://piero.bosio.info/photo/preview/640/663032 "[:pt]A masked Eurico stands in the middle of a destroyed building. The sky peeks behind him, and light pours in.[:]")
Larry Garfield
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Larry Garfield • • •Larry Garfield
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Larry Garfield • • •Larry Garfield
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •You haven't seen anything until you've seen Javascript...
Type juggling outside of a few very narrow conditions is just inherently dangerous.
Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Larry Garfield • • •@Crell Oh we use Javascript all the time and I personally love it! Not so much for its type handling, it can be a bit wonky (insert holy trinity meme), but y'know.
I'll take some type wonkiness in return for JS's immense flexibility and unopinionatedness. It doesn't try to force you into any one specific pattern or coding style (*cough*Rust).
Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Larry Garfield
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •+ means both addition and concatenate, in a language with no explicit types.
Nothing in PHP comes close to that level of dumb. (And PHP has plenty of dumb.)
Evert Pot
in reply to Larry Garfield • • •Larry Garfield
in reply to Evert Pot • • •@evert Because in practice it bites you about 10000x as often as "a string that happens to start with 0e will get coerced to 0 if you try to use it as a number."
Addition and concat are two of the most common operations. Using the same symbol for them when the types are inherently unknown is begging for trouble.
Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor
www.php.netRet
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •==Woozle Hypertwin
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Okay, that is messed up.
They're both evaluating as strings, but then the strings are being evaluated as numbers??
What's marked as a string should be considered a string until typecast to something else. Putting a number in a string should not cause it to be interpreted as a number.
Are the #PHP devs aware of this?
Gina Peter Banyard
in reply to Woozle Hypertwin • • •@woozle yes
This has been part of the language since forever.
I have a draft somewhere about what I want to change about comparison but working on other stuff rn.
Gina Peter Banyard
in reply to Gina Peter Banyard • • •Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Gina Peter Banyard • • •@Girgias @woozle Hahaha wow. And people say JavaScript is bad,,
PHP 8 seems to have a lot of nice stuff! We skipped, like, the entire history of PHP and only picked it up fairly recently.
Gina Peter Banyard
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •@woozle some of us are pushing PHP to be better.
JS has the problem that you do not know what the client will be running.
But improving comparisons is something I want to work sooner than later, but it requires some rework at the engine level. Incredibly early draft is here github.com/Girgias/php-rfcs/bl…
php-rfcs/comparison-equality-semantics.md at master · Girgias/php-rfcs
GitHubBen Ramsey
in reply to Gina Peter Banyard • • •@Girgias @woozle If this particular example were changed to `===` (i.e., the identity operator, strict comparison), would it still evaluate to `true`?
I have a coding standards rule to always use strict comparison.
Larry Garfield
in reply to Ben Ramsey • • •@ramsey @Girgias @woozle It does not. === skips type juggling, so will compare the strings as strings rather than trying to convert them to ints.
3v4l.org/msiD9
msiD9 - created on 3v4l.org
3v4l.orgWoozle Hypertwin
in reply to Gina Peter Banyard • • •@Girgias
Thanks for your input on this!
I don't know if the answer to this question is impossibly complicated, but what I don't understand is why type-coercion has to take place for comparison operators when both sides of the comparison are the same type.
TLDR: I think what is happening here is that the
==operator has a clear preference for numeric coercion -- if a string can be interpreted as a properly-formatted number, it will do that. Only if a string cannot be interpreted that way will it reluctantly do a string comparison:Also, this is clearly happening at the point of the comparison, and not before:
... mostra di più
@Girgias
Thanks for your input on this!
I don't know if the answer to this question is impossibly complicated, but what I don't understand is why type-coercion has to take place for comparison operators when both sides of the comparison are the same type.
TLDR: I think what is happening here is that the
==operator has a clear preference for numeric coercion -- if a string can be interpreted as a properly-formatted number, it will do that. Only if a string cannot be interpreted that way will it reluctantly do a string comparison:Also, this is clearly happening at the point of the comparison, and not before:
The same rule appears to be in effect for
!=,>, and<.Also, this only happens for numerically-formatted contents; the strings 'true' and 'false' are not coerced to boolean values.
Editorializing
(The following is intended not so much as arguing with you as hoping to arm you with more information to present to those who might influence the decisionmaking process.)
There may be valid mental model reasons for doing this, but I think they really need to be spelled out clearly in the manual somewhere and mentioned whenever affected operators are discussed.
To me, right now, it makes no sense. The comparison is between two things that are unambiguously the same type, so there is no reason to coerce either of them to anything else.
There's not even any reason to be attempting to parse the contents of either string (to see if either one might be intended to represent a number).
A string should be a string unless it can't be. I'd rather see string-to-number comparisons generate an error than have this behavior.
The Manual Is Wrong?
This page heavily implies that coercion only takes place if there's a type-mismatch:
A warning-example on that page also clearly shows that while
0 == "a"used to coerce "a" to a number before the comparison (in php7), php8 no longer does -- which to my mind implies that in the problematic example which started this discussion, the coercion is taking place via a different mechanism, to wit:Because the string contents can be interpreted as a number, the '==' operator inexplicably decides to convert it.
It's not even following the usual string-to-int "empty string is zero, anything else is 1" conversion rule:
Even when both values have been parsed as strings and put into variables marked as type "string", these operators are peering inside the contents to see if they can be interpreted differently.
How does this make sense?
cc: @IceWolf
@cptwtf @ramsey
@Crell
PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor
www.php.netPaul Reinheimer
in reply to Woozle Hypertwin • • •@woozle @Girgias @cptwtf @ramsey @Crell
My guess is that a lot of choices were made when ~everything came in as a string over GET or POST. PHP tried really hard to do what people probably wanted. Register Globals filled the world with strings!
Woozle Hypertwin
in reply to Paul Reinheimer • • •@preinheimer @Girgias @cptwtf @ramsey @Crell
Well, PHP has remedied many other decisions that later turned out to be problematic -- I'd say this one is definitely ready to take its turn ^.^
Larry Garfield
in reply to Woozle Hypertwin • • •Blake C. Stacey
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Glyph
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Tursiae
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •sabik
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •@glyph
I like how the explanation is also subtly wrong
#PHP
Netux
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Preston Maness ☭
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •CyberFrog
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Siaržuk
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •eurosat7
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •it's fine.
3v4l.org/3uDep
```php
declare(strict_types=1);
echo '0e99' === '0e88' ? 'bad' : 'good';
```
> Output for 4.3.0 - 4.3.11, 4.4.0 - 4.4.9, 5.0.0 - 5.0.5, 5.1.0 - 5.1.6, 5.2.0 - 5.2.17, 7.0.0 - 7.0.33, 7.1.0 - 7.1.33, 7.2.0 - 7.2.34, 7.3.0 - 7.3.33, 7.4.0 - 7.4.33, 8.0.0 - 8.0.30, 8.1.0 - 8.1.31, 8.2.0 - 8.2.27, 8.3.0 - 8.3.16, 8.4.1 - 8.4.3
>> good
3uDep - created on 3v4l.org
3v4l.orghellhound gayming
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Chris [list of emoji]
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Have you read eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-f… ?
Also: bad language != (bad design || bad programmer).
PHP: a fractal of bad design / fuzzy notepad
eev.ee